The Underworld Awaits Us All is the latest album from death metal legends Nile. I spoke with frontman Karl Sanders about some new members, the new record, the evolution of the promotion process, phones at shows, his newfound love for pickleball and other topics.
Chad Bowar: How is your health? I understand you had to be hospitalized in Belgium.
Karl Sanders: Yeah. You know, took almost a month to recover from that. I’m tired of being sick. I’m sick of being tired. Tired of talking about being sick and tired.
How is the Belgian health care system?
The day in the hospital that I spent if I were here in the States would have been easily a 5 figure day with all the testing and CT scans and whatnot they did. Easily a 5 figure day. No question. There, it cost me the price of a taxi cab ride. That’s the Belgian health care health care system. Probably because there’s all kind of stuff that’ll make you sick in Belgium, but that’s another issue entirely. (laughs)
How did you newest members, bassist Dan Vadim Von and guitarist Zach Jeter, come to join the band?
The Dan story is a really easy one. Dan also plays in Morbid Angel who are also managed by the same manager, Gunther Ford. So that was literally one phone call, which is mind boggling because the round of bass player searching we did before was an open call audition where we had just under 230 applicants that auditioned that we had to sort through. And three of those guys all failed. It took months, wasted months of our time. So, we talked to Dan on the phone and boom, it was done. He showed up, knew all the songs, could do his parts like a total pro. It was the easiest thing I’ve ever seen in 30 years of Nile bass players. I’ve never seen anything this amazing, and it was frankly a load off my mind that he walked in so professional. I didn’t have to worry about a thing. Required no parenting on my part.
Zach we’ve known for several years. He played in a band with (former bassist) Brad Paris, so we knew him that way, but we knew him before that because he lives around here. He’s from Columbia. So we knew him as a guitar player and a guy hanging out, so that shit was easy. Again, he did all his homework. I barely had to do anything except maybe, hey, when I play that riff, I stick my finger over here, but he already knew the riff. He’s got a great ear to figure it out. No parenting. I was like, wow. This is the easiest my job has ever been.
Did did the new guys change the songwriting process, or is it pretty typical for a Nile album?
The songwriting was already done when the guys came along. We were making the record. So in that sense, they contributed. The details of their performance are theirs, but the songs were already written.
Do you write more than you record or record more than ends up on an album, or do you just do exactly what’s appears on the album?
Most of the time, what you hear on the record is what we decided was worth recording. If a song isn’t gonna make it, or is not gonna live up to expectations, we can tell somewhere along the writing process. There’s an arc that happens from its initial conception to final completion. Somewhere along that arc, we can tell. Is this killer, or is this almost good enough? And if it’s only almost good enough, we stop wasting time on it.
There are few songs that would’ve made good album titles. How did you go with The Underworld Awaits Us All?
That one spoke to me. The underworld awaits us all. There’s something in there. It’s not just waiting for the bus. It’s waiting for all of us.
Where did the song title “Chapter For Not Being Hung Upside Down On A Stake In The Underworld And Made To Eat Feces By The 4 Apes” come from?
That comes from the Book Of The Dead chapter 181, the chapter for not being hung upside down in the underworld and made to eat feces. I didn’t come up with it. Whoever those guys were that 4000 years ago were writing the stuff that ended up in the book of the dead, that’s their hard work. I just saw it and went, how is this not a metal song?
You’ve been producing Nile albums for a long time. Are there any disadvantages to to self producing, not having an outside ear?
Yeah. There’s lots of them. Because if you’re the guy that’s responsible, then you’re the guy who’s responsible. You get all the headaches.
But you have unlimited studio time.
Well, that’s true. And it would be very easy to get lost somewhere along the way. There’s a theory that work will expand to fill the entire time that is allotted to. In other words, if a job is allotted 8 hours, it will take 8 hours. If the job is only allotted 2 hours, only get the job done in 2 hours. So if you allow yourself infinite time to do something, it may very well take infinite time, but we don’’t work that way. We just work till it’s done. And then when it’s done, we know it’s done, and we’re done with it.
This is your second album in a row that Mark Lewis has mixed. What do you like about working with him?
He knows what he’s doing. That’s the first one. And you can talk to him, and he’s a real guy who’s just really, really fucking good at what he does. And he doesn’t sugarcoat things. He’ll tell you, hey, this is working, or, hey, that ain’t working, or hey, do it this way, or don’t don’t do that, or let’s try something else, or whatever. And I like that. He doesn’t play mind games with people, which some producers will do. Because they think if they torment you enough, that it will somehow elicit some extra something in your performance. But no one in Nile has ever needed that, so I find that little bit of producer mind games to be toxic and unproductive. I don’t like to see it. I don’t like when people are wasting our time doing it. And I’d rather move on and make some music.
You had been on Nuclear Blast for a long time. What was the process in deciding to sign with Napalm Records for this one?
Napalm made us a really nice offer, and they seemed like pretty good people. So, yeah, why not? They’ve been great to work with. They did my Saurian Apocalypse record and did a fabulous job with it. So we were really happy to be working with them.
When you started there was hardly any advanced promotion of an album. Now every step in the process is documented on social media. Do you like the old school way with more mystique or do you like the more interactive and transparent way of promoting a new album?
That’s a great question because we were part of both of those ways, and they each have their charms. Nowadays it’s really chill and you can be yourself and talk to people face to face. I really like talking to people face to face. Back in the old days when all interviews were done over the phone, the humanity was obscured a little bit. Nowadays, when you talk to someone and when you see their face, you’re talking face to face, and it’s a little more real, a little more honest, and I really like that.
Touring can be a grind, but after COVID, when it was taken away for a while, does it give you any more appreciation of being able to play live?
For sure. I remember that first show after the COVID break and it was like the feeling of warmth from the audience was just tangible. You could feel it. And it was like, oh, I remember why I play music for my entire life, for this reason right here. When it was taken away from us all, man, it really brought into sharp focus the human connection that’s so important in live music.
If you go to a comedy club, they take your phone away, and some artists have done that. Is that something you think needs to be done at a concert?
I would have said that 5 years ago, 10 years ago because I found it highly annoying, when you’d be playing a show and people would stand in front of you with their cell phones. But, I don’t really feel that way anymore. If people wanna come to the show, whatever they wanna do, it’s okay. It’s all good. I don’t care.
You talked earlier how you released Saurian Apocalypse a couple of years ago, your first solo album in quite a while. Are you gearing up for another, or do we have to wait another 15 years for that one?
Well, let’s not wait 15 years, for the next one. I’m 61, so I don’t wanna wait 15 years. But I’m kinda busy right now. I’m still exhausted from this Nile record. I wanted to take vacation when it was done, but there was no vacation in a while, and I’m paying the price for it.
Does seeing bands like the Rolling Stones and others going strong well into their 70s give you optimism that you can still keep doing this for as long as you want?
The Stones ain’t gotta play Nile songs. And what we do in Nile is physically and mentally demanding and exhausting. After a 4, 5, 6 week tour, you’re done. You’re cooked. And we certainly do not tour the world like the Stones do, being treated as royalty and pampered at every step. That’s not death metal. So, I don’t know that we can equate death metal touring with Rolling Stones touring. At some point, there’s a stopping point. Right now we’re reasonably healthy and reasonably sane. And I say reasonably. So for now, we’re good to go.
When you’re not on tour or making an album, what do you like to do for fun?
I’ve become a fan of pickleball lately. It’s a great fun sport. Anybody of any age can pick it up and have fun. Of course, there’s lots of very skilled players, but you don’t have to be super skilled to start. It’s got a nice easy learning curve. And it’s just enough cardio to be fun and get some exercise and get out some angst. So, Pete Hammoura, Nile’s original drummer and I, we play every Monday, and sometimes I play on the public courts because they have a rotation. So you’re always playing with somebody new, as doubles. It’s great fun. We have fresh air, sunshine, sane people. It’s popular because it’s a fun sport, and people love it. And there’s something about it that’s very conducive to sportsmanship and meeting new people and having fun. What’s not to like?
(interview published August 22, 2024)
Listen To Nile – “Under The Curse Of The One God”
